I just top-flighted my 88 with a very high score....without the delco freedom battery or original tires...I posed the same questions as you in an earlier post in this forum. you can only do what you can do so to speak....I don't know of anyone that has a funtional TRUE Delco Freedom battery and no one makes an acceptable reproduction yet...same goes for the original tires....I myself wouldn't run 20+yr old rubber for fear of dry-rot...and funny thing with dry-rot is ..it is not always visible. if you want to PM me I'd be happy to give you some details as to what to expect for judging.

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....Jeff

I'm basically staying out of NCRS discussions, but this is not correct, Adam. I know you're familiar and experienced with NCRS Judging, so I don't think you'll mind being corrected in the interest of accuracy.

In order to receive Condition points, any item must receive at least a 10% originality score. This is true for any item judged. "For current-quality GM service-replacement parts the originality deduction is a maximum of 90%". (Right from the Judging Reference Manual). so any current GM replacement will receive condition points.

Batteries, (as well as tires, headlight bulbs, window glass) have Standard Deductions. Also outlined in the JRM. For a C4 Battery (all years), a current service replacement Delco will receive a 50% originality deduction, which is 10 points, as all-year C4 batteries are 20 points for originality. If you forget to remove the handle on a Delco replacement, the deduction will be 12 points. So remove the handle.


I don't understand the obsession with the 10 point deduction for the battery. To date, almost 100 C4's have received a McClellan or Hill Award which require a minimum score of 97.0 at Nationals. (That's 145 points MAX deduction, with the 10-point Bonus in Ops). With the exception of 3 of those cars, all received the 10 point Standard Deduction for the Delco Replacement battery. The battery was a non-issue for these 95+ cars. If 10 points is keeping you from the Award you're seeking, work on some other areas of the car. Because there are obviously other areas that need improvement.

I judged 10 C4's at Nationals in San Diego 3 weeks ago. Most of these cars were in the 30-70 points total deduction range. Nice cars, as one would expect at Nationals. With the exception of one car, all made the 97.0+ threshold, and received the 10-point battery deduction. The one car that didn't "make it" was an extremely original 84 that had Dealer-applied custom paint. The Original Owner is to be commended for "going for it anyway" because he knew he faced a huge hurdle to a McClellan because the custom paint was 85 points right off the bat. And he still almost made the 145. This 84 was presented with its factory-installed battery and the unique "upside-down lettered" 84-only Gatorbacks. IIRC, he had NO originality deducts. It was all condition, and the paint. He did Top-Flight at Nats with a 85-point paint deduct. Not shabby at all.

The battery is 10 points. Live with it.  Almost 100 other McClellan Award C4's in NCRS have successfully done so. Including mine.

|UPDATED|7/22/2012 10:38:16 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

Standard Deduction for Tires:

Deduct 60%-- Current-day OEM Brand, service-replacement size, bias or radial ply tires or current equivalent sizing designation and correct whitewall width.

Deduct 75% -- As above, non OEM Brand.

Deduct 100% -- Originality and Condition, all others or those with whitewalls mounted inboard.


The 4 Road Tires in C4 carry 24-points originality. So your hypothetical Goodrich 255's would receive an 18-point deduction. Like the battery, not insurmountable for a McClellan / Hill attempt.

 Unfortunately, there are no 255/50VR 16's in current production by any manufacturer. So if you have to use a different size, then yes, full deduction condition and originality. 24/24 = 48 points. Ouch.

|UPDATED|7/22/2012 5:59:26 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

Thanks for keeping me honest, Dave!  I haven't actually been to an NCRS meet in several years...I should go!

I do NOT have any of the C4 Judging Manuals...I am most familiar with the Shark era cars. Don't know for sure where the 50% number came from...perhaps I was thinking Bowtie....
At any rate, I agree that the battery and/or tires by themselves would not keep anyone from attaining Top Flight or better. It's why I suggested taking care of all of the other details to help off-set the deducts for those items. Plus, we have the added points for the NCRS decal, fire extinguisher, and....something else...my mind just left the building...





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Joel Adams  
My Link

    
(click for Texas-sized view!)             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

thanks, all this information you guy's have posted will be most helpful to me . 

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.....Battery cutoff switch. (3rd item required for the Bonus 10 in Ops).

The 50% "originality" thing may have come from Bloomington Survivor. They require 50% original to "pass". NCRS in Bowtie, Star, for the 53-82 cars requires 85% in Interior and Exterior, and 80% for Mechanical and Chassis. For the C4's the bar is much higher: Must be a McClellan Car. (97.0+ at Nats and a Performance Verification pass). Must score 90% originality in all 4 areas. (There are no 1 Star, 2 Star, 3 Star in C4's). Fail in one area, the car fails Crossed Flags.

Bloomington Gold doesn't even come close to the Scrutiny and Standard NCRS requires. When people say "my C4 is a Bloomington Gold Survivor" I don't say anything. But I think to myself: "Nice, but my car is a NCRS Crossed Flags Car". Royal Flush trumps a pair any day. And is much harder to achieve.

Dave:  Falken makes a 255/50 R16 that is rated for 150 mph.

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Looks like BFG is making a G-Sport2 again, too.

A few months back, the only 255/50-16's were drag radials and DOT track tires. I'll have to learn more about the G-Sport2. I've had 3 sets of G-sports on my Syclones and Typhoons and have been satisfied with all aspects of them. Glad to know they're available again. Maybe. We'll see.


|UPDATED|8/1/2012 5:57:09 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

falkin is about the only brand that does make the correct sizez for the 84, especially for the z51.

There is only ONE "correct" (factory-equipped)  tire size for any 1984 to 1987, or 1988 Corvette equipped with 16" wheels. And that is 255/50-16. Period. ONE size tire only for the first 4 years, and the base wheels for 88.

Regardless of Z51, or any other options. 255/50-16. The wheel widths are different, yes. The tires sizes, no.

Anyone know where to get a good look or photo of the elusive Delco Battery for C4's of the 80's? The originals did not last 2-3 years because of leaking and other issues. A very few have found dead originals and put the guts of a lesser battery inside to get around the issue and passed because it looked right. I doubt any Corvettes left the factory that way . NCRS needs to eliminate this needless anal demand for a correct battery. A correct functioning Battery does not exist.

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