Topic: dual mass flywheel
in Forum: C4 Driveline Components
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hello
My 91 L98 ate its clutch and flywheel at 130K. My mechanic suggested stick with it to avoid unwanted vibration.
He was able to obtain a DMF and new clutch and , while it was god awful expensive, its been fine ever since.
The info at the time was:
The DMF cannot be machined.
After market SF might vibrate and damage every thing.
If at idle, in amongst the rattles you hear an intermittent clunk, that noise is the flywheel starting to fail.
Having said all that I do note that none of the big parts suppliers seem to have the DMF, most will supply a Fidanza
aluminum SPF. I doubt the big boys would supply something that would break transmissions, but they do indicate additional noise.
I'd say, find a DMF if you can, if not there may be no other choice. If you get the work done, have it completed at a shop by a mechanic you can trust, maybe a corvette specialist. IF its done right it should be problem free, that is of course until you blow the master and /or slave cylinders. These should probably be replaced at the same time.
So if you like your corvette, get yer wallet out. There really is no cheap , good fix. Good luck. Post when you get it done and let us all know how you make out.
My 91 L98 ate its clutch and flywheel at 130K. My mechanic suggested stick with it to avoid unwanted vibration.
He was able to obtain a DMF and new clutch and , while it was god awful expensive, its been fine ever since.
The info at the time was:
The DMF cannot be machined.
After market SF might vibrate and damage every thing.
If at idle, in amongst the rattles you hear an intermittent clunk, that noise is the flywheel starting to fail.
Having said all that I do note that none of the big parts suppliers seem to have the DMF, most will supply a Fidanza
aluminum SPF. I doubt the big boys would supply something that would break transmissions, but they do indicate additional noise.
I'd say, find a DMF if you can, if not there may be no other choice. If you get the work done, have it completed at a shop by a mechanic you can trust, maybe a corvette specialist. IF its done right it should be problem free, that is of course until you blow the master and /or slave cylinders. These should probably be replaced at the same time.
So if you like your corvette, get yer wallet out. There really is no cheap , good fix. Good luck. Post when you get it done and let us all know how you make out.
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I had trouble with the duel mass from the factory,it was so bad that it affected my knock sensor.i talked to gorden kilabrew from gm and he told me that that flywheel was nothing but problems,very heavy and a big drag on the engine and if I wanted more horsepower and less drag on my engine to get a aluminum flywheel and a good after market clutch.i did that, a fidenza flywheel and a centerforce clutch.the difference in performance is stunning.yes there is a little vibration,but you a driving a corvette not a cadilac or worse a c5.the cost is much less then the dmf and factory clutch but way better performer and you will immediately feel the difference.enjoy your ride.
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NORTON, OH - USA
Joined: 7/9/2012
Posts: 111
Vette(s): 1985 C4 red,
1985 C4 Black and dark gray
summit raceing has everything and adamsapple is correct
Did a quick search @ Summit Racing and this swap setup looks pretty good - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ram-900800/overview/year/1990/make/chevrolet/model/corvette
"These RAM single disc push-type conversion C4 Corvette clutch kits are designed to replace the pull-style clutch and dual mass flywheel in your factory 1989-96 C4 Chevrolet Corvette. They consist of an aluminum flywheel, a high-clamp Borg and Beck-style pressure plate with a 2,800 lb. clamp load, and a RAM 300 Series organic clutch disc. The RAM single disc push-type conversion C4 Corvette clutch kits use an internal hydraulic throwout bearing, replacing the factory release mechanism, to complete the install. Best of all, these clutch kits are capable of handling up to a 700 hp holding capacity."
"These RAM single disc push-type conversion C4 Corvette clutch kits are designed to replace the pull-style clutch and dual mass flywheel in your factory 1989-96 C4 Chevrolet Corvette. They consist of an aluminum flywheel, a high-clamp Borg and Beck-style pressure plate with a 2,800 lb. clamp load, and a RAM 300 Series organic clutch disc. The RAM single disc push-type conversion C4 Corvette clutch kits use an internal hydraulic throwout bearing, replacing the factory release mechanism, to complete the install. Best of all, these clutch kits are capable of handling up to a 700 hp holding capacity."
As I noted earlier, it's all a matter of what you expect from the car in the way of noise and tractability. The set up you describe - including the aluminum Fidanza flywheel and RAM hydraulic throwout bearing - is what I had installed when the clutch on my '93 packed it in, and I replaced it after about 2,000 miles with my original DMF flywheel that was resurfaced, Valeo pressure plate and disk, and OEM master and slave cylinders. Although the throttle response with the lighter SMF was improved over the DMF, the added noise from the gearbox (which was louder than the Borla exhaust I have on the car) and the dramatic reduction in tractability, especially at low RPMs, made the car much less pleasant to drive. The aftermarket stuff is in my basement waiting to be made into a planter or something useful.
I understand that using a heavier steel SMF, as opposed to the aluminum 'wheel, makes for somewhat quieter operation, as does the use of Castrol TWS 10w 60 transmission oil (BMW P/N 0751 000 9420, which BMW specifies for use in their ZF six-speed gearboxes. (BMW used ZF 6-speeds and LuK DMF's, too) I started using the Castrol oil when I first installed the SMF and it did reduce the noise somewhat over the GM-spec oil. I've continued to use it, and like it a lot. The heavier SMF should also improve tractability. I found that raising the idle a bit (easy to do after removing the plug in the throttle body that covers the idle screw head) also reduced the noise a little. In the end, though, it was still too loud for my tastes,
One of the real attractions of my C4 is its civilized performance, but C4s can be whatever anyone wants to make out of them, right up to all out track cars. Modifications have consequences, however, and owners should be prepared to live with both the good and the bad of the changes they make.
Fred
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Crystal Springs, MS - USA
Joined: 7/29/2011
Posts: 34
Vette(s): 1973 Mille Miglia Red LS5
1981 Claret Red
1982 White
1985 Silver Metallic
1988 Yellow
1993 Torch Red ZR-1
1994 Torch Red Coupe LT1
1996 Dark Purple Metallic LT4
2000 Torch Red
2001 Light Pewter
2003 Z06 Millennium Yellow
2009 Atomic Orange
The new C7 manual 7-speed transmission comes with a Dual Mass flywheel (also a twin clutch). The introduction of the DMF on the '89 Vette was the first use of its kind in a passenger car.
Just a little info/trivia thrown atcha'...
1981 Dark Claret Metallic - SOLD
1982 White
94 Torch Red LT1
96 Dark Purple Metallic LT4
02 Black Convertible - SOLD
03 Millennium Yellow Z06
09 Atomic Orange Z51
09 Atomic Orange Z51

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San Pedro, CA - USA
Joined: 6/20/2013
Posts: 7
Vette(s): 1992 Polo Green Coupe
1987 Bright Red Coupe
Ferrari 348 used a DMF...
Someone stated above that not using the DMFW will cause damage, that's crap.
The ZF6's inherent design is what the DMFW is quelling. The various shafts and rods rattle. That's all. And going with the dual mass absorbed it.
The vibration you don't want is engine RPM related and that will hurt an engine. But if you get the SMFW properly balanced, it won't be an issue.
corvetteguru said:if you get the SMFW properly balanced, it won't be an issue.
Please define HOW you would go about "properly balancing" a replacement non-zero balanced flywheel to the existing engine's rotating assembly, Mr. "Guru".
I've driven 3 LT1 engines with replacement flywheels, and every single one of them had engine RPM ranges where the harmonic vibrations were immediately noticeable and objectionable, and probably harmful to the engine if operated at these RPM's for extended durations.
IMO this is an often overlooked or ignored problem with flywheel replacement on externally balanced engines. What's your solution? I know what mine is, and it isn't cheap OR "easy" at all. Another reason to favor automatics when considering a used car purchase that has an externally balanced engine. Especially high mileage where the flywheel is nearing replacement, or has already been replaced, and now the engine has harmonic vibrations.
|UPDATED|9/27/2013 10:56:09 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
in Forum: C4 Driveline Components
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