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Topic: Slightly bumpy auto shift 2nd-3rd

in Forum: C4 Driveline Components

Slightly bumpy auto shift 2nd-3rd

Posted: 8/25/13 3:34am Message 1 of 9
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Providence, RI - USA
Joined: 9/27/2011
Posts: 21
Vette(s): Red 1996 targa top, all stock as far as I know.
My '96 (LT1, stock everything) runs well, and -- after having sat in my parents' garage for around 4-5 years, as you'll recall, before I put it back on the road about two years ago -- really the only concern I have is with a slightly bumpy second shift (i.e., shifting from 2nd to 3rd).  It's pretty minor -- usually only happens if you're ambling along at ordinary low-stress acceleration; oddly enough, accelerating hard or up a hill, there's no bump at all.

What I'm trying to describe is, when making that shift, it feels roughly the same as if you went over a pavement seam or a crack in a concrete road -- and it doesn't always do it.  That's probably why I didn't even notice it for awhile after I started driving the car.  I noticed it probably around 8-9,000 miles ago, and it hasn't changed, gotten worse, or anything during that time. Transmission fluid looks fine. Lately, I've been using the car for daily commuting -- just driving about 10 miles to the commuter rail station.

So my question is: does this need to be looked at, and if so, what typically causes it?  In the absence of any obvious answer, my usual response to such an issue is not to worry about it for now... but I figured I'd run it by the group anyway....

Thanks,

Urbie


|UPDATED|8/25/2013 3:34:09 AM (AZT)|/UPDATED|




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Re: Slightly bumpy auto shift 2nd-3rd

Posted: 8/25/13 9:08am Message 2 of 9
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 3/18/2009
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Vette(s): 1985 Coupe-L98/Auto,Bright Red/Carmine. 1974 Coupe-L48/4speed, Medium Red Metallic/Black Deluxe.
Prolly nothing to worry about at all. No noises, clunks, bangs, or vibrations, fluid is clean/full....drive it. Thumbs Up


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Re: Slightly bumpy auto shift 2nd-3rd

Posted: 8/25/13 10:34pm Message 3 of 9
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I'd take it to a reputable independent trans shop (NOT Aamco) and have them scan it, and drive it.
You have a 96 which is OBD II. When an OBD II car sets a transmission code, the MIL light will NOT illuminate. 96 is  also the first year of what they call the "PWM'd Torque Converter Clutch".  These early PWM'd TCC's have issues. Not just Corvette, but all GM's that use the 4L60e transmission. What happens is the PCM detects torque converter slippage, and sets code P1870. Google "P1870".


I'd have it scanned for Transmission codes. The 2-3 should be the 'softest' shift in a 4L60/4L60e.  There's a lot going on during the 2-3, and it takes time which results in a soft-ish shift. If it's  bangy, its not right. Have an expert give it a test drive.

If it HAS set P1870, or any of a number of other codes that command max-line pressure, you want to know about, and fix it. continuing to drive it with max-line pressure breaks parts. The early PWM'd 4L60e's are well-known to have issues. Get it checked. :2cents:

|UPDATED|8/25/2013 10:34:54 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|



Re: Slightly bumpy auto shift 2nd-3rd

Posted: 8/26/13 7:03am Message 4 of 9
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Providence, RI - USA
Joined: 9/27/2011
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Vette(s): Red 1996 targa top, all stock as far as I know.
> I'd take it to a reputable independent trans shop (NOT Aamco) and have them scan it, and drive it....  What happens is the PCM detects torque converter slippage, and sets code P1870. Google "P1870". <

I haven't had the code (I'm assuming the service light would come on?  I've had one or two other codes since I got the car, but none transmission-related.

As I note, the shift issue is pretty minor -- I wouldn't call it bangy, just a noticeable bump, like hitting a crack in the pavement.  Still, I'll take note of the issues you mention with the 4L60 transmission.

And I certainly won't take it to AAMCO!  :-D  A friend of ours had one, and their business model is (or was) that they don't actually fix transmissions on-site at all -- the only thing they do is take yours out and replace it with a rebuilt one!  That may be okay for run-of-the-mill consumer vanilla cars, but not for ours.

But I'm on good terms with one of the best Corvette mechanics in the Boston area -- he's been working on my car ever since it was my Mom's, and he got to be good friends with both her and my Dad (who had a '98 Indy pace car).  I'll run this by him and see what he says.

Thanks,

Urb




Re: Slightly bumpy auto shift 2nd-3rd

Posted: 8/27/13 4:31am Message 5 of 9
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 3/18/2009
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Vette(s): 1985 Coupe-L98/Auto,Bright Red/Carmine. 1974 Coupe-L48/4speed, Medium Red Metallic/Black Deluxe.
Any codes that would cause a max line pressure situation would cause a harsh 1-2 shift, but not really effect the other shifts. Since we only have a slight bumpy 2-3 shift on occasion, I would lean more towards there not really being any major issue.The later model transmission had more of an issue with the PWM valve wear that can set the 1870 code, but the early units had a different valve line-up in the valve body....don't really see much wear in those, thus rarely ever see a "Trans Component Slipping"(1870) code for them.
Definitely have your guy check it out, but with no codes, and only a minor shift issue at times, it's probably not a real problem....might just be a little more acceleration going on when it shifts like that. Wink


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Re: Slightly bumpy auto shift 2nd-3rd

Posted: 8/27/13 5:05pm Message 6 of 9
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Rochester, NY - USA
Joined: 8/20/2011
Posts: 60
Vette(s): 1987 Coupe Red and red, Z52
Hi Urb,
My '87 does that once in awhile. Exactly as you described like passing over a road seam. Has done it for the two years I've owned mine. I have a filter and fluid change planned next week so I'll start with those basics and look after it.



Re: Slightly bumpy auto shift 2nd-3rd

Posted: 8/28/13 9:46am Message 7 of 9
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 3/18/2009
Posts: 2246
Vette(s): 1985 Coupe-L98/Auto,Bright Red/Carmine. 1974 Coupe-L48/4speed, Medium Red Metallic/Black Deluxe.
The '87 still used the 700R4 trans...non-electronic. Still pretty much the same trannys, internally, but with a different valve body and electrics on the 4L60E. The 700 is mostly controlled by throttle pressure, and the governor, whereas the 4L60E is fully electronic control.
I don't really see a problem with either of them having a little funky shift every now and then. A difference in throttle application can cause one to do that.
My '85 will bark the tires in every gear, iffin I want to...and I like it like that. Evil Smile
Big smile


Joel Adams  
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(click for Texas-sized view!)             NCRS

"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"

Re: Slightly bumpy auto shift 2nd-3rd

Posted: 8/28/13 5:40pm Message 8 of 9
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Rochester, NY - USA
Joined: 8/20/2011
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Vette(s): 1987 Coupe Red and red, Z52

Yup, It's the fact that Urb's is computer contolled and mine not and we have identical experiences that is interesting. One theory I had once was it wasn't the tranny at all but maybe the diff clutches releasing. I thought this because each time the pop occured it was after a turn or "s" bend and at light throttle. I never detect anything if I get on it.




Re: Slightly bumpy auto shift 2nd-3rd

Posted: 8/31/13 4:51am Message 9 of 9
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Providence, RI - USA
Joined: 9/27/2011
Posts: 21
Vette(s): Red 1996 targa top, all stock as far as I know.
Thanks again for the input.  I was my Dad's garage assistant growing up, but automatic transmissions were the one thing he didn't work on -- so they're pretty much a black box, except from Peter Egan's description of them as something you diagram with arrows going around in various directions not unlike a bowl of spaghetti... or however it was he described it.

Kinda too bad I didn't take my Dad's '89 white convertible with 6-on-the-floor, when he offered it.  Didn't have garage space at the time....

Urb




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