The security goes out when you turn the key forward. But the car still won't crank.

Just checked the ccm svc eng flashes once then twice. Don't know if thats 12 or what. Diagnostice codes in Haynes start @ 13. Checked online forums. According to them the ccm will flash 12 3 times and then any other codes. No other codes showed up. What are the symptoms of a bad starter relay?

|UPDATED|6/14/2014 4:08:38 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

CCM is not the same as ECM. CCM codes are displayed in the speedometer / odometer. ECM codes are displayed by flashing the Service Engine Soon light.

CCM does not "flash" codes. So you must be querying ECM by shorting A & B. If you only see ECM Code 12, there are no codes stored in ECM, including 46 (not there). 46 is set by a PASS-Key problem, which because it is NOT being set, is an indicator that your condition is NOT PASS-Key related.

If you mean "turn key forward" to mean, turn from off to IGN, then the Security light is normal, indicating there is no problem with PASS-Key causing the no-crank.

If you mean "turn key forward" to mean from IGN position to START position, I don't know what the light does in START.

I don't think your problem is the "key" or PASS-Key system. If you have no "pellet" in the key, it's been bypassed. Move on. Your problem is NOT related to the key, pellet, or PASS-Key system.


The Starter Interrupt Relay is located above the LH lower inst panel. Remove the carpeted cover above the driver's feet. Remove the corrugated aluminum crush panel. (4) 10mm head bolts. The Starter Relay is to the left of the steering column, the one closest to the steering column of the 3. It has two large yellow, and one smaller blak/yel wire(s).

There may also be something with the aftermarket alarm causing your no-crank. Unfortunately, there is no way I can begin to tell you how to go about diagnosing that, as I have no idea how your car's wiring has been modified from the stock configuration.

Is your car Automatic, or Manual transmission?

If Automatic, I assume you've tried jiggling the shifter in Park, and tried Neutral position to see if it then cranks?

And if Manual, tried moving the clutch pedal (with shifter in Neutral) in and out while holding the key in START?

The Automatic P/N switch can come out of adjustment, and the Clutch pedal switches fail, usually at the bottom of the pedal travel, but work further 'up' in the travel.

Don't know if I'm looking in the right place. Attached is a pic. This is the left side of the steering column. it looks like they removed the relay and connected tjere own wires. The wires you're describing are connected to the center relay on my car.

PIC 1

PIC 2

(large images modified to links-aapple)


|UPDATED|6/19/2014 8:00:31 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

Well those yellow wires are the Starter Interrupt Relay, regardless of position. The Starter Interrupt Relay is on the front side of those wires, in that block. I do not know what the "made in Canada" relay is in your pic. The two relays at the bottom, hanging, are aftermarket.

Pull the tape off the yellow wires, it doesn't look OEM, and you may find splices where the aftermarket alarm was inserted into the factory circuit. If so, splice the factory wires back together, and try it. If crank = yes, yer done.

Get a test light, or VOM on DC scale, with one lead connected to good ground ( I like the lighter shell in a Corvette).

Put shifter in neutral or Park.
Hold key in START.
Check each of those big yellow wires for presence of 12 volts while key in START with VOM or test light.

12V on all three big yellows, = no problem with relay, CCM, PASS-Key, or IGN switch. Move on to Clutch or Neutral switch.
12 on only 2 = relay bad, or CCM is commanding a "no crank"
     Remove relay.  Jumper the two wires at the top of the block, and the one directly below it togeather.  If it now cranks, try another relay from an adjacent position without the jumper.. (they are generally the same).
If it now cranks you have a bad relay. Replace it, and yer done.
If it does not crank, the CCM is sending a "no crank" signal. For the tab on the relay that connects to the small blk/yel wire, bend the tab on the relay sideways, so it does NOT insert into the connector block. Put the relay back in, and try it. If it now cranks, yer done. Good enough.

If it still doesn't crank, your problem is with the clutch or neutral safety switch, or there are still more aftermarket connections.










|UPDATED|6/15/2014 3:45:05 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|

Okay. We'll give it a shot. Thanks. Don't know if you're a dad or not but if so, HAPPY FATHER'S DAY!!

I purchased two aftermarket VATS key blanks from Ebay after I had a local locksmith read the resistance value on my old key.
Both keys worked fine for about a month and decided to fail last week on the Hot Rod Power Tour in Iowa. They would work intermittently and each time they failed you had to wait ten minutes to reset the system before retrying.

Long story short it cost me a new battery and starter before we realized the problem. I drove 450 miles home without shutting off the car. Once I was home I tried the original key and everything worked fine.  Be sure to get real GM keys.
 

the ignion keys turns the switch in the column which by a rod in the steering column turns/moves the actual igniton switch which is located right under dash on the steering column.this could be your intermittent starts,had similar problem with my 90.go on line and look up the part and the location.it also appears your father removed the vats system,so no need for chipped keys.have fun.

Thanks for the info.. However I've already have a new ignition switch installed.