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Topic: Early C4 owners - a.c. question

in Forum: C4 General Discussion

Early C4 owners - a.c. question

Posted: 6/14/13 12:39pm Message 1 of 15
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Sacramento, CA - USA
Joined: 4/11/2013
Posts: 109
Vette(s): 1995 Coupe, Automatic, Dark Red Metallic, 1G1YY22P6S5100376 1985 Coupe, Automatic, Gold Metallic, 1G1YY0783F5114974
I have an 85 and a 95.  I notice that, while driving on the highway, temps in the 95 with the a.c. on don't go up.  In fact, it stays cooler longer while sitting in traffic with a.c. on.  In the 85, I've only tried the a.c. once, while driving on the highway.  The engine actually ran a bit hotter with it on (about 10 deg.)   As soon as I turned off the ac, the temp started to go down.  Is this normal with the earlier cars?  

I have NO overheat problems with the car and when I'm sitting in heavy traffic, the fan kicks on when it should (around 230) and the temp begins to drop.  Fan goes off around 217.  (I have an auxiliary fan, but not sure when it is coming on.)  The a.c. blows cold.  My husband says I am worrying about nothing.  Am I?



~Laurie~

1985 and 1995 coupes:
1985 and 1995 coupes
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Re: Early C4 owners - a.c. question

Posted: 6/14/13 1:23pm Message 2 of 15
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Canada
Joined: 11/3/2011
Posts: 150
Vette(s): 1988 Convertable
Sounds like you have a wise husband. If the car is not over heating then I wouldn't worry to much.
 
 I believe the fans should be running when the A/C is on.  When I am in traffic on a hot day I'll switch the air on and generally the temp will go down, or at least hold.



Re: Early C4 owners - a.c. question

Posted: 6/14/13 8:36pm Message 3 of 15
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Sacramento, CA - USA
Joined: 4/11/2013
Posts: 109
Vette(s): 1995 Coupe, Automatic, Dark Red Metallic, 1G1YY22P6S5100376 1985 Coupe, Automatic, Gold Metallic, 1G1YY0783F5114974
Fans are definitely running, and since no overheating issues, I probably shouldn't worry.

Really, the only issue I need to work out at this point is that, when it's hot (the weather and the car,) it idles low (bounces around between about 480 and 550) while in drive, sometimes wanting to stall.  If I  stick it into neutral when it's doing that, it settles down and idles stably around 600 - 650.  We're going to start by making sure the idle is properly set to factory specs.  If it's still doing it after that, we'll look into other things like IAC, vacuum lines, EGR and so forth.  It may just be easy as getting it adjusted better, though, hopefully.  It's not major, but kind of a pain in the butt.  Starts very easily, and no hesitation on acceleration.  Just the idling rough in the heat when it gets good and warmed up.  



~Laurie~

1985 and 1995 coupes:
1985 and 1995 coupes

Re: Early C4 owners - a.c. question

Posted: 6/14/13 10:11pm Message 4 of 15
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The 85 uses R12. The 95 Uses R134 as factory fill. R12 runs a higher head pressure than 134, and loads the engine differently. Keep in mind that the A/C condenser is in front of the radiator. All heat extracted from the cabin goes through the radiator. Depending on heat loads and temperatures, the engine temp may be increased under similar operation conditions.  If it behaves the same under similar conditions, don't worry about it. Watch for anomalies, not worry about what the readings are.

The 85 turns off the main fan at 45MPH. If it were running, it would impeded airflow at those speeds and higher.  The B4P boost fan comes on at 238°F. (In 28 years, I've only heard the boost fan come on once. the water pump was leaking, and the engine was low on coolant).

You indicate you're going to "adjust the idle". The idle is ECM controlled. There is no "adjustment" possible. You can adjust the minimum idle speed, or check it if you have a Tech 1. (450 RPM with IAC commanded closed with a Tech 1).

There is idle compensation for A/C clutch engagement by the ECM. You can check this function:
  • Turn on the A/C.
  • Disconnect clutch connector at compressor. (clutch disengages).
  • Turn A/C controls off and on. Idle should increase about 200 RPM when A/C turned on. Go down 200 when off.

There's some info for you.




Re: Early C4 owners - a.c. question

Posted: 6/15/13 7:40am Message 5 of 15
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Sacramento, CA - USA
Joined: 4/11/2013
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Vette(s): 1995 Coupe, Automatic, Dark Red Metallic, 1G1YY22P6S5100376 1985 Coupe, Automatic, Gold Metallic, 1G1YY0783F5114974
Thanks, Dave, for the good information.  Having only used the a.c. once, and only at highway speeds, I don't know how it is affecting idle.  It's good to have a check on that.

As far as the idle issue itself, I think I probably can't get away from incorrect terminology, and I guess I need to work on that.  What I want to do is clean up the tb, and check that the minimum idle speed and throttle position switch are adjusted correctly to factory spec.  If they aren't, I want to get them there.  I figure this is a very good place to start with an idling issue, since it won't cost anything but a little time.  And, who knows, it may be that they are out of whack, and getting them to spec will be just what it needs. 

As far as the a.c., I didn't know that about the different refrigerants acting differently.  Actually, I wasn't entirely certain which refrigerant the 85 used, so now I do.  Thanks.  



~Laurie~

1985 and 1995 coupes:
1985 and 1995 coupes

Re: Early C4 owners - a.c. question

Posted: 6/15/13 3:22pm Message 6 of 15
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Sacramento, CA - USA
Joined: 4/11/2013
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Vette(s): 1995 Coupe, Automatic, Dark Red Metallic, 1G1YY22P6S5100376 1985 Coupe, Automatic, Gold Metallic, 1G1YY0783F5114974
Went through and checked minimum idle speed and tps voltage.  Both were out of spec.  Adjusted according to FSM directions and specs.  Will drive it later today to see how it goes.  I did make one bad mistake when checking for codes (I had codes last week.)  I used the paperclip method, which I've used before, but accidentally started the engine before removing it.  I noticed within a couple of seconds and removed.  I don't see that it caused any issue, and I sure hope not.  I hate when I do stuff like that.

Edit:  Took it for a lengthy drive including a good mix of highway and stop and go.  The weather is quite warm, so the car got well warmed up.  It idles much better so far - not rough anymore.  Cleaning out the throttle body and getting things back to factory specs seems to have made a good difference.  


|UPDATED|6/15/2013 3:22:20 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|



~Laurie~

1985 and 1995 coupes:
1985 and 1995 coupes

Re: Early C4 owners - a.c. question

Posted: 6/16/13 8:16pm Message 7 of 15
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When you start the engine with the jumper installed, the ECM goes into "field service mode".The CEL will flash rapidly (about 3Hz) when in open loop. It will flash slowly (about 1Hz) when it enters closed loop. Field service mode is useful to determine if the system is entering closed loop after repairs.

The light will also indicate "mixture" when in field service mode. If light is on more than off = rich. If light is off more than on = lean. Basically the light mimics the O2 sensor's output above and below 450Mv. (The center threshold between rich / lean).

You didn't hurt anything. Field service mode is useful. Its important that the system enters closed loop for economy.


Re: Early C4 owners - a.c. question

Posted: 6/16/13 9:24pm Message 8 of 15
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Sacramento, CA - USA
Joined: 4/11/2013
Posts: 109
Vette(s): 1995 Coupe, Automatic, Dark Red Metallic, 1G1YY22P6S5100376 1985 Coupe, Automatic, Gold Metallic, 1G1YY0783F5114974
Thank you, Dave.  That's so good to know.  You are such a wealth of information, and I really enjoy your posts.  I did notice that the light flashed steadily and rapidly, which I guess would make sense at the point I was at.  I am thinking about getting some software to help me better read diagnostics.  I am enjoying all the things I am learning while enjoying driving these cars.


~Laurie~

1985 and 1995 coupes:
1985 and 1995 coupes

Re: Early C4 owners - a.c. question

Posted: 6/17/13 7:15pm Message 9 of 15
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lanoka harbor, NJ - USA
Joined: 3/22/2009
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Vette(s): 1990 L-98 white/ red/black leather interior targa top auto 1975 L48 blue/black leather interior t tops auto
just remember---the 85 is obd1 and the 95 is obd2.




















the dynamic duo


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Re: Early C4 owners - a.c. question

Posted: 6/17/13 7:38pm Message 10 of 15
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Sacramento, CA - USA
Joined: 4/11/2013
Posts: 109
Vette(s): 1995 Coupe, Automatic, Dark Red Metallic, 1G1YY22P6S5100376 1985 Coupe, Automatic, Gold Metallic, 1G1YY0783F5114974
Didn't they go to obd2 starting in 96?  I thought the 95 vette was still obd1, even though the 16 pin port is on the car (making it sort of "obd2 ready.")    I've seen this sometimes called "obd1.5."  


~Laurie~

1985 and 1995 coupes:
1985 and 1995 coupes

in Forum: C4 General Discussion


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